Another Hand Gun Debate

[skullbonz]

    First I would like to say that I welcome all comments on this subject from all sides. 
    I live in one of the states (Vt) that does not require a permit to carry a hand gun and no matter what anyone says I strongly believe that is the reason our crime rate is one of the lowest in the country. Criminals or would be criminals can get guns in any state and they don't need permits to do it,and very easily I might add,also they are not getting them thru legal avenues. Law abiding citizens who follow the rules find themselves defenseless in situations where a criminal is using a gun to commit his crimes and often times die because of that. Now if all law abiding citizens were allowed to get permits and/or carry a hand gun,or have one in their home or car these criminals are going to start thinking twice about committing these crimes. As they do in states like Vermont. They never know whether or not the person they are about to rob or worse will pull out their own gun and blast them away,"Say Goodnight Gracie". Hand gun ownership is on the rise in the US as ownership laws are changing slowly back to where our Constitution set forth in our 2nd amendment Right to Bear Arms. Just one of the many freedoms Americans have been stripped of over the years by loud mouth want to be do gooders, that we are slowly getting back,perhaps the only one we might get back.
      Here is a link on an article about this that you may or may not find interesting; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life//   
      Although they don't have any concrete statistics on the corelation between hand gun ownership rising and crime rates lowering, I firmly believe the two are directly related. Especially in these troubled times of high unemployment in this country,normally the crime rate would be climbing,not sinking. They must be thinking twice. If you can deny this then you live in a fantasy world. 

[j69o]

Here in Florida you can carry a concealed weapon with training and a permit($40 total).
I feel that the "Concealed" in no deterrent against crime, a side arm exposed for all to see, thats a deterent!
Give me a S&W 1911 PD straped to my hip and I would walk down any ally fearless!
I know its coboyesque, but I feel if we all packed and it showed, yes the crime rate would go down.
Bonz you wanna have fun start this thread on the UK sight 
J

[Firestorm]

John's letterbox



No use starting this on the UK site as they dont have guns. It would be a non event. This is where the action is when it comes to gun debates ..... 

[skullbonz]

  Is that your mailbox Fire? Pretty cool,I'll bet they have handguns,lol.

  j69, I already aggravate them enough across the pond,lol,If I brought this over there me and tulla would probably get banned,lol.

   Here they have gone from "concealed" to "not concealed" and back so many times it is hard to keep track. A general rule I have seen is "semi-concealed",we are a tourist state and if they see a gun strapped on your side they freak out and call the cops so most conceal them as best they can. You can't carry in any federal or state buildings is one rule we have that I find ironic because these are the places some are most likely to go "postal" and blast innocent people, a gun toter would be a welcome sight.

[Firestorm]

no way mate...... not mine or any persons in this country.

How does that saying go.............. "Only in America"

[j69o]

Stormy you google earth didn't you ,to find that
Bonz I have had many a racous thread over there and it was fun, and the cooler heads prevailed even Tull, yes they have their POV and I respect that.
But to my back I have the US Consitution that states in the second admenment "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Shall not be infringed" that went out the window a while back, the admenment has not been repealed yet it has been violated with every new gun control law enacted.
Even if I were a pot growing idiot with a meth lab I have the legal right to bear arms as long as I have never been convicted of a felony(which BTW I am not).
If you want to regulate something, do the ammo not the guns!
I was rasied in an Arkansas family, got my first gun at 7, fired my first gun at 5, I was taught respect safety and usage, so I deeply respect what a gun is and its usage.
Now I know I sound like a gun toting redneck @^^, but in actualty I am college edcuated world traveler, I have lived in many cultures that ban guns
but none of those cultures went thru what we have, this is a revoluntionary country and our rights we fought for, they were not given to us!
Say what you will I will defend my right with words or a gun if needed!
J

[Laryngitis]

no way mate...... not mine or any persons in this country.

Tell them why guns were banned in Australia in (1996?)
I think it came about after one man shot and killed 35 people and wounded another 17 in Port Arthur.
Before that there had been a number of mass murders of aborigines and others.
Life in Australia has been kind of dull since 1996 I hear. It seems that mass murderers have difficulty running up a decent body count without their guns. I guess the alternative suggested by some in here might also work...everyone walking the streets with firearms in open view.

[Temper]

 

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Pay particular attention to the last paragraph.

[JoKeR]

Well I guess if it wasn't handguns it could be baseball bats. We then ban baseball bats.

The funny thing is I put a Glock 17 on my kitchen table, and you know what?  It didn't get up and shoot a single person.  

The thing is, it's not the guns, its the the bad guys.  There are tow many gun control laws as it is now, and they aren't worth a damn unless they do something about the bad guys.  

Trampling on my constitutional right does nothing but piss off honest law abiding citizens.

As it has been said before "When they pry it from cold and dying hands!"

I personally think we may be heading towards another civil war here in the States.

JoKeR

[Laryngitis]

The funny thing is I put a Glock 17 on my kitchen table, and you know what?  It didn't get up and shoot a single person.  

March 9, 2010
“A three-year-old girl accidentally shot and killed herself with a loaded .380 calibre pistol after police say she mistook it for Wii shaped gun controller. It was her stepfather's gun, lying on the table”

[j69o]

Similar incident here, 2 year old got a hold of her moms boyfriends gun and shot herself in the stomach, they are still not sure if she is going to pull thru, lets put blame here where its due, the gun was not at fault and the kids were doing what kids do, its the idiot gun owners here, they are going to do time over these incidents, hard time once the prison population finds out what they did.
You wanna ban something ban idiot parents that leave loaded guns where children can acess them!
J

[Rb_Tullamore-Dew]

I think this exactly is the point John.

Well, I didn´t want to enter this debate, once again, since pretty everything has been said already on previous threads. But you raised a point (or better Joker and Laryngitis did), which is worth to debate:

Yes, there are possibly alot of responsible gun-owners and there are also alot of those idiots, leaving their guns on the kitchen table or going to get mad at anytime.

You wanna ban something ban idiot parents that leave loaded guns where children can acess them!

So, who are the idiots then ? Who is going to point his finger at another one, saying: ´You´re an idiot and therefore not allowed to own a gun !!!´

This is why noone should be allowed.  Idiots enough around.

[Laryngitis]

Well I guess if it wasn't handguns it could be baseball bats. We then ban baseball bats.

No way. When we ban idiots from having guns we need an easy way to identify them...We would know that everyone with a gun was intelligent and everyone with a baseball bat was an idiot.

While were at it why not ban idiots from voting? If we did that and then had a referendum on whether guns should be allowed how would it turn out? Lets leave that to your individual imagination. 

This is why noone should be allowed.  Idiots enough around.

Now that looks like an attempt to be logical and theres no place for that here. Lets keep it on an emotional level sos even the idiots have a chance to participate.

[Firestorm]

no way mate...... not mine or any persons in this country.

Tell them why guns were banned in Australia in (1996?)
I think it came about after one man shot and killed 35 people and wounded another 17 in Port Arthur.
Before that there had been a number of mass murders of aborigines and others.
Life in Australia has been kind of dull since 1996 I hear. It seems that mass murderers have difficulty running up a decent body count without their guns. I guess the alternative suggested by some in here might also work...everyone walking the streets with firearms in open view.

Guns were banned after two major incidents in 1987.... The Hoddle street massacre where Julian Knight decided to start killing inocent people as they drove along the road and another a few months later in the city center of Melbourne. This prompted Victoria (where I live) as a state to take the initiative and ban guns as described below. Other states soon followed but states like Tasmania didnt see the need for this until the Port Arthur shootings.

As for aboriginal massacres, there was a sole incident in 1928 so I hardly think there was a number of these mass murders. You will notice though one of the largest and longest running killing spress came from the underworld where 34 gangland members died over an eight year period between 1998 and 2006.

If you think living without killing is dull, then the states is the place for you. Personally I like the idea of my kids going to school without the threat and them getting shot.

Port Arthur Massacre - Semi-automatic rifles and pump action/self-loading shotguns were banned from civilians, and ammunition capacity restricted to 5 rounds in magazine-fed rifles. Licensing is also introduced, and both a firearms license and a buyers permit are necessary to legally purchase a firearm. Furthermore, an acceptable reason must be stated on the permit for buying the weapon, and a minimum 28 day "cooling off" period must be enforced before the issuing of the license.

We do have guns but the average man in the street doesnt need that protection, after all who are your protecting yourselves from........yourselves 

[j69o]

Well Kai the laws here have stiffened here on the "Idiots" that let their kids get ahold of their guns, the kids shooting themselves are a conviction, the adult will do time, lots of it!
Stormy we have had a multiple incidents since I was a kid, in 66 a guy with a brain tumor, climbed the clock tower at the U of Texas and shot many people, 63 Kennedy, that pretty much negated mail order gun sales!
Columbine, those kids should have been spotted and their parents should have known what the hell was going on with them.
There has been many more!
I am not being cold hearted nor am I Numb to the situation, it happens, it just happens!
Take the guns away and then the bombs start going off!
People intent on harming others will bring their intentions to fruition!
I would love to take you guys to a Gun Show here, every thing from Barret 50 cal sniper rifles to brand new Thompsons with 100 round drum mags(semiauto,but can be coverted,illegaly), AK's SKS's AR15, shot guns, pistols,
S+W has come out with a 50 cal 5 shot revolver, that thing will clear a room
You guys would walk around bug eyed, saying 'This is not real"
we are what we are here, I see more regulation in the future, but no admenments to the constitution.
J