Old pilots returning to the game and the bad welcomes they receive.

[JoKeR]

Just to start out, I'm not naming names, people or anything of the like.  I will say that one of my pilots had a complaint about another pilots who was on the comms egging  him on into and argument after he got my pilot into the argument and all shook up,  the problem child recorded the happening and sent the film to the sysop turning the story around on my pilot.   ( I know it is hear say because I didn't witness it, but I stick up for my guys!)

I also personally watched another story un-fold last weekend where a pilot was followed from FFA to teams and targeted again and again.  When asked why, he responded in his usual "don't give a crap" attitude.   The pilot being targeted had just returned to the game and he has some very good skills.   The new/old guy keep his head let it pass and he took it up the the pilot's  squadron C/O who just kind of blew it off and asked the new old guy would like him join his squad for practice the next day.

I just want to say that it is hard to get people back into the game, let alone keeping new people who show up for the first time.  The new people think that this is and easy game and when they play FFA they find out that it is not and easy game at all.    If you are an experienced pilot  ( one that is experienced is someone who I think has been around for at least 6 month or longer)  leave the new guys alone.  If you see some a old pilot returning to the game, make him feel welcome!  Don't just go and beat him to death because he use to be good years ago.  Things change, you often lose the skill you had and you have to relearn a lot of stuff.  You never know in short time that new old guy my end up being the top gun on someones team and you'll wish you had been nicer! I just wish I had the skills some of these guys have now.

 Valkyrie

[H@wk]

I heard similar Val,

Thanks for opening this thread.

Yes indeed, let the ego's go and welcome all to this game.

Make love not war.

Peace

[skullbonz]

I understand what you are talking about Joker,me being a recent old/new guy coming back in the skies of AA after a couple year R&R. I have run into this myself since I have come back. I once would take on anyone on a 1 vrs. 1 at any time any place but am a bit rusty right now,all will come back to me in due time. I experienced this back in the beginning when it was Fighter Ace and then Air Attack but in time I learned and despite the dial-up handicap I had soon found myself getting even with the egotistical ones.  You see I made a list of them so I could seek them out when I was ready. My personal motto back then and still being used today is "Don't get mad,Get even". I also try to instill this in our pilots here at TEA HQ as part of their training because I know someday they will be better and the tables will turn. If any pilots are experiencing this problem while I am in the same room seek out my help and I will come to there aid in the air. As for the verbal onslaughts all I can say is gag the jerk. For all who are new or old/new and are either rusty or inexperienced  and starting to get discouraged I say be patient,you will get better. Don't let anger cloud your judgements. There are many great old pilots in here that will gladly teach you things if you ask  but unfortunately like everywhere else in the world there are a few bad apples.
   
   

[TS_WASP]

being subject to this twice now, i couldnt have said it any better joker..................cant believe some hold animosity for 10yrs  in a video game, just wow

[H@wk]

We have a pretty good idea of whom you speak of Wasp,

We will watch and protect our own when the time comes.

Sure is a dam shame but human nature once again shows it's face.

[Tbar]

Did Joker say that?  .. I had to look twice and make sure it was not my post :)

I'm with Joker on those sentiments.

[TANK]

Well, if that thing is so bad for an old pilot who is coming back. how bad it must be for a new pilot the first time in the game ?

I did show some friends the game and they all failed.
No fun they had and no time to learn the game since they get shoot in seconds. That was the way they did feel it.

2 weeks ago I did show the game again to a friend who has some experience with flight games (IL2) and I was sitting with him at my place to help.
He was doing well at start and while he was on the joystick I did help out with the keyboard.
After some minutes I did have the strange feeling of been targeted and watched for that.
Indeed, targeting did take place, in some situations I can say it looked like teaming, some of the AMa guys even avoided contact with each other just to get the POf guy.

The best thing was that my friend noticed that on his own and believe me he was upset.
Maybe he try again on his own but I think that one lesson was enough for him and he would like to stick with IL2.

Maybe a solution:
Here is what we may try or what I'm going to suggest for the administration of the game.

We don't allow new pilots who can only use small planes into the full FFA arena. Only rookie arenas would be visible and to use for them.
Maybe we let them into the full team since they have than someone who can help, but I would suggest that FFA should not be available for that pilots.

Doing so the "new pilots arenas" would fill up so they can at first experience a game where they not get downed within seconds and can play against pilots on there own level.
Adding some more "guides" to this arenas sure will help great and maybe some more will stick to the game if it doesn't look that hard right at the beginning.


The situation we have now couldn't be more worse, so why not try to exclude new pilots from the experienced one.
From approx. 20 registrations a day we have 10 guys really trying the game and 9 of them never coming back after that.
They know how the game looks like from the videos and screenshots we have placed on the page. So I think it is really not at all that they think it is a crap old game with poor graphics.
It looks more like that they have seen the game is unbelievable hard and with the "rookie hunters" in FFA sure they feel that way.
All the things to help new pilots like "contact guides", "join rookies" and "watch how to replays" didn't work. There is a lot of help for new pilots visible and available but it doesn't work. It can't work if so much pilots give up after the first time in the game.
So we have to try something new and see how this may work out, but the situation as we have now I can't watch anymore without action.

[shrapnel]

Thank you for your thoughts on this subject, Tank. We, as a community, have also noticed that new pilots are having a difficult time entering the game because it takes a long time for them to attain enough skill to compete. I have also seen new pilots lose interest because they are killed over and over with no chance to learn the game.

USAAC is currently working on introducing a program that will offer training by veteran's to new pilots. All the squads registered in USAAC have committed to providing veteran pilots as instructors. We have a small committee presently working on the details of this program. There is no intention to displace the present Guide program that Wizard so ably supervises. It will be in addition to that program but will have a direct commitment from all the USAAC squads and be geared to US time zones. We would also like to be more proactive in that we want to seek out new US pilots as soon as they register. By taking them under our wing at an early stage we hope to overcome the present situation where the newcomers get discouraged by their lack of skill and give up too soon.

Tank's suggested solution of denying access to FFA to new pilots could have merit but I'm not sure how such pilots will be clearly identified. To do this by rank  might be difficult as the present system allows everyone to create new tags which means that the lower ranks are always a mixture of newcomers, returning veterans and existing players who just want a new name. I think such a system would only work if there was some sort of one name only policy.

I have heard it said that the only way to save children from drowning in swimming pools is to teach them to swim. Building fences around the pools is only partially successful because the children will find ways to get over the fences. Similarly I think the only way to protect new pilots from unscrupuous veterans is to teach them to fly.

[H@wk]

As Tank suggested,

It would work, The restriction is not based on a new tag being made but rather the account itself.

If a vetran is the culprit in this situation he would have to create a whole new account, same as a vetran does not have access to the rook FFA even if a new tag is created.

It has indeed bothered alot of USSAC vetrans to see this kind of play mentiond in this thread thus USAAC is  currently working on trying to solve this in our time Zones and also working in conjunction with our sister comminities.

Thanks to all that see and know that this behavior will lead to a slow death of AA and those who are committed to trying to solve this problem.

Salute

[Rb_Tullamore-Dew]

My 2 pence worth:

AA is struggling for new blood for ages. Even at GamechannelPro we had already decreasing numbers. DBE was suffering anyway, also due to charging their players, I think. Also on KAA there weren´t as many new players but the already existing, established squads, also due to its firewall - and other accessing difficulties.

Now at Ketsujin after only 2 years and something, there are 4 or 5 new/ returning squads.

 - BSS
 - Raven
 - Air Assassins
 - BBC
 - TEA

This is alot, even if not all squads are ready to compete yet. I think this is in the majority due to Tbars efforts, offering and organizing a structure for them at ToW-net, incl. boards, Teamspeak-access etc.pp. After all they need to be well organized, in order to communicate properly with each other and as independent as possible, even if it probably wasn´t independent enough for some, it was the entry to the game for many already.

So, your main-focus should be to support these new squads, to teach them, to practise them etc., so they´ll become able to compete in leagues and to recommend them to new, single players. (I myself am currently in touch with AA_adam and we´ll have a practice, friendly match next sunday)

As we all know, it´s by far more fun to play the game in teams, together with buddies (old or new ones) and to learn it much sooner.

Any isolated new, single player, isolated from (allmighty) teams, will probably give up, sooner or later. Obviously it´s not the problem to get new players but rather to keep them in the game for a longer time. The guides doing well but at the end of the day, nobody has that much time on hands to accompany all new players for month´. And it needs month´ for most,  to get a half-decent skill.

The idea isn´t new. There was already a pure rookie-squad, organized by Wizard and comrades. I think the problem was, that this squad did never compete with other squads and its player-base was highly fluctuating. Though the idea is imo the best, it had to fail due to above circumstances.

There is a need for affiliation and not only affiliation to any no-name Kindergarten-rookie-squad but affiliation to one of the already established squads.

The opportunity is there, to make an application to one of the already existing squads at the CLP but it´s either seldom used and if, often abused by some ´funny´individuals. So it´s losing attention by many C/O´s, which I think is understandable. So my suggestion would be to let new players know, which squads they could join from registering on.

Simply send an autom. generated pm and/or mail to each new registered user containing a letter, explaining them, that it´s easier and more fun to master the game within a team (squad) and not only recommend them some squads but simply ´assign´ them to those squads, who´re currently recruiting (single choice method) in a rather brutal way.

It´s up to the C/o´s or assigned X/o´s then to deal with new players/ applicants. I´m sure such a system will be abused as well but it´s easy to check, if there is  true interest or rather not.

Each listed squad on the CLP should have a recruiting/ not recruiting status, which can be ticked/ unticked by the C/o´s and each squad should have a language setting, whether it is mainly english, german, korean, japanese or what not.

Squads with a ticked recruting status should appear in the selection of squads within the pm/mail a new user receives, assigned to its prefered language.

There are surely a couple more ways to keep new players in the game. This is only one....rather technically and needs some coding.....and of course the agreement and good will of those C/o´s who want to recruit rookies.

[Firestorm]

Simply send an autom. generated pm and/or mail to each new registered user containing a letter, explaining them, that it´s easier and more fun to master the game within a team (squad) and not only recommend them some squads but simply ´assign´ them to those squads, who´re currently recruiting (single choice method) in a rather brutal way.

Interesting concept, but where is your freedom of choice.

[TANK]

@Tulla
Your idea with recruiting and showing squads recruiting to new members is one way to go.
After that scoring thing is done and 2squad runs, the hole squad and group system will have a huge change and one is to introduce a requirement for applications.
Every C/O can set the requirements as he like e.g. language, skill/rank, days registered....
In that way he can also set his squad at a status where he is not recruiting.
The list of available squads which fits the requirements shows than up in the list for applications to send and for new pilots also on the main page.
Another change is to let the C/O enter his own squad description which shows than up on several places including at the form for applications.

Next idea (and a bit delicate) is to show the squad leaders some details of the tags from that pilot who send the application. Showing kill, deaths, crashes.....from the tags of the pilot who send the application would give a better picture. Showing the tags of this pilot so he could be identified in the arena is NOT an option and we will hide that.
It will show up like that:
Score     Kills      Deaths     Crashes     FF-Kills     FF-Deaths
1,218    1879      1243        30            10            9
679       1105      801         22            4             5
451       662       390         15             1             0
You clearly see what you get and it can help the C/O to decide if that scores shows a pilot he like in his squad or not.

Some more ideas I have but since this is a one man job we better do that step by step.


Now to the problem with the new pilots.....
The problem we face is that so many new pilots leave just after been in the game for a short time. No offer to join a squad could change that since after registration and installation everyone sure is keen to look into the game.
Where is the most action and where you see mainly pilots flying ? Right, FFA. So lets join there, get you killed some times and you lost interests quick.
It doesn't have to be on purpose that the new pilots get shot over and over. It happens anyway. Just join FFA, use only keyboard and F3 view and you get a unbelievable ratio.

We have already some things for new pilots and one is the red button at the launch page, located just left from the red one who shows "contact support" and it says "Contact Guides" Contact Guides if you need help with flying skills.
It offers the same as the support and is just visible for pilots there have with no tag they created a better ratio than 29.
Nearly nobody uses that. Nobody contacts the guides and says "Hey, I need some help to get better in the game".
So it is clear that from alone this system doesn't work.

We truly have to exclude this pilots from normal FFA business and redirect them into a arena where they can compete against others with less skills.
The redirection will work per account. If you register new you are considered as new pilot (rookie) and you can access that new pilot arenas until your tags get a certain rank, you have with all your tags a greater ration than 100, you get kicked out from the guides or you request to the guides that you like an unlimited account where you can join the normal FFA.
Whats happen if (e.g. myself) registers a new account at the clp and just kills the rookies in this new pilot arenas where I got access?
Well, I would get kicked out there from the guides as soon they realized that I'm not a rookie and have some good skills or my ratio over 29 does it anyway.

That means with a new pilot arena where several guides look at it, help the new pilots getting better skills and holding the arena clean maybe leads to a situation where a new pilot not gets frustrated after 10 minutes and keeps playing.
Keep playing is the key. After that he may like to join a squad and than the idea from Tulla would offer a great thing.

I'm going to suggest that to the administration and there is nothing we could change back if we see this doesn't pay off. In my view we have to try and really force the new pilots into there own arena.

[Rb_Tullamore-Dew]

Simply send an autom. generated pm and/or mail to each new registered user containing a letter, explaining them, that it´s easier and more fun to master the game within a team (squad) and not only recommend them some squads but simply ´assign´ them to those squads, who´re currently recruiting (single choice method) in a rather brutal way.

Interesting concept, but where is your freedom of choice.

If freedom of choice is meant the way whether a new user wants to stay alone or becomes a member of a squad, well there is none.

In many games a new user will be forced to join either this side or that side. To join the allies or the axis. To join e.g. NOD or GDI (command & conquer) etc. So why shouldn´t we force new players into squads ? It doesn´t mean they wont be allowed to play FFA on their own and it also doesn´t mean they wont be allowed to change their minds later. It just means, they´ll be a member of any squad from the beginning on.

It requires some nice introducings of the squads though, because there wont be any noticeable differences between the squads on first sight, for a new user.

[Firestorm]

In many games a new user will be forced to join either this side or that side. To join the allies or the axis. To join e.g. NOD or GDI (command & conquer) etc.

There is your freedom of choice....you can chose to join one side or the other. I am not against the idea but tend to think Tank is on the right track rather than just forcing them to go in one direction.

[Rb_Tullamore-Dew]

There is your freedom of choice....you can chose to join one side or the other.

In the case of my suggestion....you can chose to join one squad or the other. And even without being influenced by current league-table standings. (hopefully). 

However, TANKs idea isn´t bad either, I agree. And for me, there is not only one option anyway. When it comes to keep new players in the game, we should consider to implement each and every possible way.